The Learning Matters Podcast captures insights into, experiences of, and conversations around education at the University of Sussex. The podcast is hotsed by Prof Wendy Garnham and Dr Heather Taylor. It runs monthly, and each month is centred around a particular theme. The theme of our forth episode is ‘scholarship for science teaching’, and we will hear from Prof. Zahid Pranjol (Professor of Biomedical Science) and Dr. Luis Ponce Cuspinera (Senior Lecturer in Engineering) as they discuss teaching and scholarship in the sciences.

Recording

Listen to the recording of Episode 4.

Transcript

Wendy Garnham

Welcome to the Learning Matters podcast from the University of Sussex, where we capture insights, experiences, and conversations around education at our institution and beyond. Our theme for this episode is scholarship for science teaching. And our guests today are Professor Zahid Pranjol from Life Sciences and Dr Luis Ponce Cuspinera from Engineering and Informatics. Our names are Wendy Garnham and Heather Taylor, and we are your presenters today. Welcome, everyone.

Heather Taylor 0:42

Right then. So, Zahid, can you tell us a little bit about the context of your scholarship?

Zahid Pranjol

So my teaching is based on student centered learning. And in my teaching, which I do on anatomy and some of the human physiology areas such as the cardiovascular system and others, I really try to bring in an Equality, diversity and inclusion (EDI) element to my to that and, it’s student centered so it’s all done through co-creation, through a lot of active learning. So in terms of my teaching it’s my scholarship, they’re quite intertwined, and it’s based on the philosophy that I want our students to be involved. Teach them global perspectives and co-creation and all of that.

Heather Taylor 1:40

So then same question to you Luis.

Luis Ponce Cuspinera

So I teach 2nd year students in electrical and electronics engineering. Most of the subjects that I teach have been traditional living, kind of, very theoretical, and I try to do more hands on activities, and I get the students to use simulation and more addressing the problems kind of like the way they will as engineers in the real world. So that is the things that I try to bring into the classroom.

So the students still get theoretical knowledge but they do spend quite a few hours, doing hands on activities and simulating engineering problems.

Wendy Garnham 2:15

So given that context what issues do you see as being particularly pressing in science teaching?

Zahid Pranjol

So a major challenge, if you’re talking about EDI teaching and inclusivity, one of the major challenges we have today is what we teach and how we teach it. So for example, eurocentric curriculum. I think a lot of our materials are based on what’s been done in Europe, and the knowledge that stems from Europe and not the knowledge that we have in other parts of the world.

So the challenge is how do we bring that into our curriculum, and how do we get our staff and students to engage with that new materials. Well it’s not new materials but the materials that have been hidden away for a long time. And then bring that back to life. So that is the that is the major challenge, and the reason why it’s a challenge, is that, we want our students to graduate and be competent in the context of the global market. They need to learn global perspectives, they need to be able to appreciate the different perspectives of science, they’ll be working with people from different backgrounds, they’ll be working on patients who are from different backgrounds and so I really need them to engage with that knowledge and understanding and appreciate that difference.

Wendy Garnham 3:44

Yeah. I think that that resonates I think across a number of areas of teaching as well. I think that’s a really topical issue. I’m going to pose the same question to you, Luis. What issues would you say are particularly pressing in your field of science teaching?

Luis Ponce Cuspinera

I would like to highlight two. I think that one of them is that, obviously, we have learning and understanding as some of the key elements of teaching and learning. And because of the advances in technology, having information such at hand, having so many tools that can do very advanced stuff, particularly in engineering. I think that to some extent that this disengages the students, you know, and, they tried to do very advanced things because that’s the things that are living in the day to day.

And we try to approach things by teaching the fundamentals because we believe that the understanding of the fundamentals will lead them to do these kind of greater things. So I think that is one of the main challenges that we have with so much information, so many tools that we have available to solve complex problems, how do we get them engaged? And how do we get them to understand the subjects so that these tools become really, really powerful? And the second one that I want to highlight is that, normally when we’re thinking about engineering, we are thinking solving problems.

And I think that is embedded from very early days, solving problems. And I think that we don’t always focus or emphasize the problem formulation. And I think that is another element that we’re missing. A lot of our students, and I think that probably all the students, all the engineering students around the world, they get a problem and they want to find the solution rather than trying to formulate the problem, really understand what is the thing that they have at hand and how to tackle it or how to address it. So I think that these are two key things that I tried to solve with my scholarship.

Wendy Garnham 5:33

I’m particularly interested in, that idea of sort of there being so many tools and so many technological advances and that idea of sort of being able to support students in how to use them effectively. I think that is going to be increasing important.

Heather Taylor 5:51

So, Zahid, can you give us an idea of what scholarship projects you are or have been working on?

Zahid Pranjol 5:59

So in Life Sciences, the main project that I’ve been doing since 2020 is integrating decolonised and inclusive content into our curriculars. And we’ve done that through our EDI committee as well as a lot of work with students. So for example, we created this race equity action plan, and part of that action plan we had several themes and one of the theme was teaching and learning. So part of that theme, and also these themes are created through collaborative work with students, so co-creation again. But one of the things we wanted to highlight is to teach a variety of cultural and scientific traditions within our curriculum.

For example we teach about DNA, the history of DNA discovery. And we always talk about Watson and Crick, but nobody mentions Rosalind, so there is this sort of hidden agenda almost that it was a male centric discovery when actually it wasn’t. So we highlight these things and we also highlight discoveries of vaccine, you know it wasn’t done by Jenner, it was actually done by a slave from Africa, who was brought to America and he saved a lot of lives. And so these are all historical scientific discoveries that are not taught to our students and that they need to know the true history of science.

So what we’ve done is in all subjects, in all courses, we have a module dedicated to teach students about the true history of science, different ethical aspects of clinical trials that went wrong and really appreciate that these things were not correct. So the knowledge that we have today, some of it may have stemmed from that part. However we don’t eliminate Eurocentric knowledge. That’s not the point of decolonising the curriculum. What the issue is that you know what we want to do, what we’re going to achieve is integrate and include more of these different works done by ethnic minority scientists, female scientists, and bring them from all around the world and show how it works differently.

So and on a practical point of view what we did, so these are obviously theories we implement them, embed them in our curriculum, But also when it comes to teaching we do two things. One, we have a lot of case studies, case study based group work. And these case studies are not just plain simple patient case study you know, Mister Watson or Mister James had this cardiac arrest. We actually bring in the ethnic side of things.

So we try to introduce somebody who’s from an Indian background or maybe African background. And so we bring in this diversity and that shows genetic diversity but also precision medicine which is where you have the treatment that is not the same for all. There are different treatments for different people for the same disease. So we highlight these things and also we talk about personal experience and experience that exists within communities. So an ethnic minority person who is pregnant might have a different experience than somebody who’s from, lets say, a local Caucasian background. So we tend to highlight these with case studies and stories.

And the second thing we are about to do is called global class rooms. So we are inviting groups of students from India, to join a couple of our courses online at live hybrid seminars, so that students can engage knowledge of the local initiatives and local perspectives and things that happen locally. For example malaria, we teach them about malaria. Yeah great it’s textbook stuff but really we want to hear from students from southern India and Africa. Tell us how they deal with malaria, what are the access to healthcare issues, you know there are barriers to access to healthcare, there are barriers to, there are cultural elements as well. So you bring those into the classroom for our students to actually see the world with a different lens that you know what, the things are very different out there and that’s what you want to achieve in the end and this is a couple of things we’ve been doing in in the School of Life Sciences. We’ve had some successes but we continue to push for more.

Wendy Garnham 10:28

Sounds amazing. Really opens their mind to the global picture rather than just the, as you say, just the textbook knowledge.

Heather Taylor 10:40

I think as well it’s just great that we’re told as teachers to, you know, decolonise the curriculum, sometimes it’s not that straightforward how you do it. I’ve done projects myself with students doing co-creation stuff, and evaluation of modules, related to that.

But, you know, the idea that you’ve got some really, really practical things, practical steps to take. So, Luis, can you give us an idea of what scholarship project you are or have been working on as well, please?

Luis Ponce Cuspinera 11:16

Yeah. So one of the main things I try to do with my students in electrical engineering is that I deliver the theory a little bit, kind of like in the normal context, but then they have a lot of hands on activities that range from doing some experimentation with real electrical machines. So they will do the tests, they will gather data, and they will understand how the theory matches with the experiment. And then I give them multiple scenarios from real engineering problems where they have to do simulations using tools such as MATLAB, and then they will be solving these problems. But rather than just solving the problem, like the way we see it in the classroom where you’re given a set of data and you just know how to solve the problem, I asked them, or I pose the question, like, if there are engineers working already, so they have to validate or they have to test something, and they will gather the data from the real world rather than from the classroom.

They do go through a process of learning and struggling, you know, kind of translating the theory into the real world. And, but I also prompt them into the kind of that engineering practice where I say, this is not far from what you will face when you become an engineer and you start working in industry. There are going to be some things that will come very straightforward to you. I know what to do. There are other things that you’re going to struggle a little bit more.

You also need to learn how to self learn, but also be able to ask for help, whether it’s through colleagues or to line managers. So I encourage that they talk to each other. I encourage that they come and ask me questions as if I was their line manager. So give it a go because you don’t want to be the person that is nagging the line manager all the time, but, at the same time, you don’t want to be stuck forever not giving the results to your line manager. And, it tends to work quite well, most of my students do get engaged, and I think that part of the self learning and self development is quite embedded into the way I teach.

And towards the end of the module, they actually design and make a physical implementation of one of the devices that they have to design. So it’s a full process where I take them from, this is how the real world works, this is how we normally operate in the engineering world with using simulations and so on, and now it’s your turn to take from scratch to design something. And they tend to be quite good at that design element, I guess, because they have gone through the learning process at the beginning and in the middle. I think that’s in a nutshell, that’s how I will describe it.

Heather Taylor 13:50

Yes. Brilliant. And I mean, it must be something like you’re saying is valuable if it’s in the real world, and it must be something that like the working world, and it must just be something that they, employers, must be very pleased, I would imagine, about this. I mean, whether they know or not, I don’t know. But, when they get someone who’s come from university into a job, and they’re like, oh, I’ve worked through problems practically, yeah, it’s great.

Wendy Garnham 14:15

Yeah. I was going to say, employability aspect is pretty strong, which brings us to our next question, in fact. So maybe we’ll start with you this time, Luis, in talking about the impact that you think your scholarship will have or that you hope it will have.

Luis Ponce Cuspinera

I think that one of the main things that I have seen already in my students is that they get more engaged in the module, which was a little bit concerning, especially just kind of pandemic, post pandemic, where the engagement was suffering a little bit. And they do learn a lot about their self development and self learning, which is a life skill. So that will help them whatever routes they end up taking, in their lives. So I think that is really, really good. And the fact that they learn how to formulate their problems.

I think that whenever they go to an interview or they’re discussing a potential job or they’re discussing with their managers, the way they’re thinking is slightly different because they’re not just thinking ‘this is how I solve the problem’, but rather ‘this is how I tackled the situation that I have in front of me’. And whether it’s breaking it down, whether it’s just having different approaches, using simulation, running to the lab and doing some testing or designing something, you know, building a prototype. I think that those skills, employability, of course, are very variable for them. So this is one of the main things that I want them to get out of my scholarship.

Wendy Garnham 15:40

I suppose it’s good as well that they have the oversight of the whole process rather than just one sort of problem solving aspect of it, it’s looking at that whole process from how you work through from the initial identifying what the problem is right the way through to the end.

Heather Taylor 15:57

Do you see more confidence in the students, do you think, as a result of them doing it? Maybe it’s too early to tell, you know, from if you’re doing it all within the same year group. But I just wonder if it would give them better confidence entering the workplace?

Luis Ponce Cuspinera

I hope it does. I definitely see them more confident as they go through the semester. And, they do struggle at the beginning, I have to say, because it’s quite unusual. They’re very used to kind of traditional A levels, you know, especially when you are facing already ‘I’m going to do engineering or mathematical sciences’ kind of thing. They are so used to just solving the problems, you know, numerically, that when they have to face the real data, and I give them data sheets, that come from manufacturers and things like that, they start to see that not everything is exactly the way we teach it, but, they can bridge that. And that’s the aim, you know, that they bridge that and they do quite well towards the end of the semester. I think that they gain more value and they have that confidence, and normally, at least from informal experience, I say students that meet me on the following semester, they say how much, they appreciate now the skills that they acquire through that module and how that has helped them in sort of facing the 2nd semester and even their final year.

Heather Taylor 17:25

Oh, amazing. That’s great.

Wendy Garnham 17:28

It’s like the strongest form of active learning, really, isn’t it? Just dropping them in at the deep end with a proposal, I like the sound of that a lot. So I’m going to pose the same question to you, Zahid. In terms of your scholarship, what impact do you think it has had or will have or what do you hope it will have?

Zahid Pranjol 17:48

So the ultimate goal is to have our students learn about holistic science. Science is not just you get in the lab, it’s also about learning the history of science, and knowing that science is a global thing and we want them to be global citizens and global workers. So you know we have a lot of group projects and group work, group activities, and these are majority of them, at least in my modules, and I know that it’s done across the school now as part of the new curriculum which is great, is to teach students, for them to work together on ideas and cases or patients cases that really highlight the global perspective, so how things work differently in another country and how does it work here in the UK, even in the UK how does it work for different communities, you know what is the acceptance rate, why is there a hesitancy in taking COVID vaccine in certain communities, and why is Alzheimer’s disease diagnosis and treatment different in different communities and why do you see that difference in morbidity and mortality rate.

So the idea is for them to work in real world context. Now have I seen any impact yet? We have a couple of students that came back to me, they graduated last year. And they said actually when they went to the workplace they’re more able to sort of appreciate the differences. And they could quickly pick on that, ‘oh actually this person is from ethnic minority and they have a different result compared to this group of people, so that means, oh actually, yeah, we did learn that there are differences’, so I think that’s what we want to achieve, we want them to appreciate the differences and we do live in a world where as you can see there’s tensions and political tensions globally right? What else, what more can you want at this point, you want your students to learn? How to respect, how to live in peace, how to understand each other’s views and appreciate those differences. So yeah I think that’s the plan, we want them to be holistic scientists or employees who have all the skills. And I think maybe in 5 to 10 years time we’ll see a much bigger impact going forward.

Decolonisation is not just a Sussex thing, it’s happening all across, and especially in science there’s a big push now because you could decolonise. I can’t say it can decolonise easily but you could decolonise subjects like social sciences, but it’s really tough to challenge some of the views that exists in science. How can you challenge a professor who’s so big in their field and tell them ‘actually you know what you should do things differently’. It’s very challenging but we start small and we expand and you make it big and you get people to accept it and engage with it. So for example – I’ll give you one example in Life Sciences. When we first started talking about this decolonising curriculum, the uptake was very low and I was faced with some challenges. You know I faced some challenges. So for example, somebody came to me and said, ‘do you really want me to erase all the reading materials that are written by white scientists?’  And because I can’t do that. I’m like, well, that’s not the point. Just so you know, it’s about including, more diverse materials. And then when I did that actually and he showed it to me, ‘do you think it’s okay?’ I’m like, yeah, sure. It’s great. So it’s all about engaging with them at a micro level to start with and then expand and work with students because they’re the ones who have the voice to make a difference.

So co creation. So that’s the impact I hope to achieve that they will become very employable in the context of this diversity, the globalisation and the real world contexts.

Wendy Garnham 21:58

I suppose the impact there is also for staff as well. It’s just clarifying what it means to have a decolonised curriculum and how to practically go about ensuring that as well because it sounds as though the staff are benefiting as well as the students from this input that you’ve had with the scholarship. So, yeah, it sounds like it’s a double whammy.

Zahid Pranjol 22:19

That’s the plan.

Heather Taylor

In the future as well, I just think that teaching students this now and you’re providing greater representation, but you’re also just giving them really valuable perspectives like you said that they can use practically, and will be important to people practically, but also the problem you were talking about earlier about how the theory and research is very Eurocentric. Well, hopefully, in the future, as a result of this kind of work, it will move away from that and this will be – it’s not a problem that will never go away. It’s an evolving thing as culture changes and so on. But I mean, yeah, the idea that we can more easily access and know about multiple perspectives in the future, I think starts here so you could have a massive impact in the future, you know? Yeah, it’s great.

Zahid, what advice would you give to anyone regarding scholarship in science teaching?

Zahid Pranjol 23:21

I think it’s very important to be open minded. That’s number one advice because scientists we tend to focus on one thing, you know. I can spend my whole life on one protein. Or one antibody and you know, and so I think we need to be open minded.

We need to be open to ideas that are not very ‘sciency’ in my own specialisations. So it could be, you know, educational matters in science. So I think we also need to listen to students, they have lots of great ideas, and you know if you can involve them as well in our work we can really make something big and something different from it. Which is what we’ve seen in our work, that when you involve students they’re fantastic, they have so many great ideas and so yeah and I think that’s what we need as science educators, we need to be more open minded, open to ideas, and especially you’re open to challenges, you know, challenge yourself a little bit. The things you are teaching is great, but what if we did that differently?

What if we change the way we taught and the things we taught. And I think that’s very important and you know, the curiosity comes from our science, but I think we should pass that curiosity a bit more onto how we disseminate knowledge and we are the ones who are influencing all these people, all these young minds. So they need to be more open minded and have a bit more student-centred approach. And I think then you could do different things differently with big impacts hopefully in the future.

Wendy Garnham 25:04

I think sometimes it’s that element of risk taking that we need to be brave and just be prepared to take a little risk with the knowledge it may not always work out exactly as we want, but if you don’t take that risk, you don’t move things forward.

Heather Taylor

Yeah. Definitely.

So same question to you then, Luis. What advice would you give to anyone regarding scholarship in science teaching?

Luis Ponce Cuspinera

There’s not much to add, to be honest, to what Zahid has said. I think he has covered quite a few points that I was thinking, he was mentioning them already. Maybe we’re connected because we’re just sitting next to each other. But, Wendy also mentioned that the sort of being brave, try to explore, and be open with the students, and if the students are involved in the process as well.

I have to say that I probably had it a little bit wrong the first time I thought this way. My students were very, very stressed and everything. Even though I had used some students to try to kind of gauge whether it was suitable or not. I would say that to some extent, I got it wrong.

But I adapted, and I was trying to adapt as I went through. I fixed some things as kind of on the go almost for that first iteration, and then the subsequent situations worked much, much better, and the students were enjoying the benefits or are enjoying the benefits, without an amount of stress, because this is something that I definitely don’t want. And I wanted also to take away the stress that they have from exams. So I got rid of the exam for a reason. So I didn’t want to bring stress levels elsewhere.

So I think that’s, yeah, be brave and be adaptable, you know, adapt as you go. Keep the communication open with your students, especially the first couple of times that you are implementing something new because, you are also learning. Right? Because you are exploring something new.

Heather Taylor 27:06

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. They’re really nice messages, actually, aren’t they? Open minded, brave, flexible.

Wendy Garnham

Definitely. And I think they’re the sort of skills that employers are looking for anyway. So you’re sort of really feeding into that employability agenda, I guess.

Heather Taylor

Yeah, brilliant.

Wendy Garnham

So, I would like to thank our guests, Zahid and Luis, and thank you, everyone, for listening. Goodbye.

This has been the Learning Matters Podcast from the University of Sussex, created by Sarah Watson, Wendy Garnham, and Heather Taylor, and produced by Simon Overton. For more episodes as well as articles, blogs, case studies, and infographics, please visit The Learning Matters Forum.